My friends over at Cleansing Fire have posted about Fr. A at OLV “suspending” the sign of peace because of “flu concerns.” While I understand that many are concerned about the flu, this is not, I believe, what this is about. It is no secret that many Traditionally-minded Catholics have a problem with the sign of peace.
As quoted from Cleansing Fire
“Something tells me that the flu will not ever go away, in the eyes of the administration of Our Lady of Victory in Rochester.
And thanks be to God for that.”
I am a little confused.
I hear a lot about “rubrics” and “that is not what they meant with “Vatican II”, “No one has the right to deviate from the prayers of the Church due to personal beliefs.”(a comment from one of my posts).
Please enlighten me.
How is it OK that Fr. A is doing this, even though it is in blatant disregard of the following?
From the GIRM (that we are using now, not the new one that was just approved)
The Rite of Peace
82. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner.
From Sacrosanctum Concilium (Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy)
A) General norms
22. 1. Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop.
2. In virtue of power conceded by the law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of competent territorial bodies of bishops legitimately established.
3. Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.
Yet…have a guest lay preacher as part of a parish retreat, female altar servers, music by Marty Haugen, or dare to receive Communion in the hand, all of which fall into a “gray area” of interpretation and you have your faith and level of Catholicity called into question.
Would any one like a cookie with their cup of hypocrisy?
I mean no disrespect to Fr. Antinarelli, or the good people over at Our Lady of Victory. This is a perfect example of my "problem" with this whole "orthodox vs. progressive mentality", the rules seem to only apply if one is agreeable to them. Rules are rules, and should be followed to the letter and the spirit of the law. Maybe we should be using this "flu pandemic"(she says sarcastically), as a way to re-evaluate our practice of this custom and bring it back to a sober and sanctifiying moment in which we can forgive each other and then approach the altar with clean hearts.
The sign of peace is optional. Don't get all worked up before you find the proof, Persis.
ReplyDeleteI am not worked up, I am asking a simple question.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is, that if it is in the "rubrics" (i.e. the GIRM) that it is not optional, which is why I included citations to both it (the GIRM) and the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy.
If I am wrong, please enlighten me with facts, that is what I am looking for
"Would anyone like a cookie with their cup of hypocrisy?"
ReplyDeletePersis - before you go blasting us with nonsense, do some research. Your bashing of a SOLID priest and his congregation does nothing to distance yourself from the rude comments you made about St. Thomas the Apostle, i.e. "they deserve what they get."
A lay student has no right whatsoever to bash a priest for doing something which is RIGHT THERE IN THE GIRM! If you had actually read the whole thing, you would have noted this. I direct your attention to newliturgicalmovement.org/2006/07/sign-of-peace.html for more explanation.
Also, GIRM 154 gives light to your darkened interpretation. "Afterwards, WHEN APPROPRIATE, the priest adds, 'Offerte vobis pacem.'"
Kindly refrain from bashing those who are so wholly undeserving of it.
The following is from the liturgical expert, Fr. Edward McNamara:
ReplyDelete"The reason the GIRM dwells on this point is to put the kiss of peace into its proper context as a brief, and relatively unimportant rite in preparation for Communion; in fact, few realize that it is actually optional."
Here is relevant documentation, from the latest edition of the GIRM:
Mass w/out deacon (i.e- OLV)
"154. Then the priest, with hands extended, says aloud the prayer, Domine Iesu Christe, qui dixisti (Lord Jesus Christ, you said). After this prayer is concluded, extending and then joining his hands, he gives the greeting of peace while facing the people and saying, Pax Domini sit simper vobiscum (The peace of the Lord be with you always). The people answer, Et cum spiritu tuo (And also with you). Afterwards, when appropriate, the priest adds, Offerte vobis pacem (Let us offer each other the sign of peace)."
The "when appropriate" suggests that the asking the people to share a sign of peace with one another is optional. Certainly with the Swine Flu situation, it is inappropriate to continue this practice. The bishop conferences decide in general whether or not to call for some sort of sign of peace to occur here, but it is not required.
Mass w/ deacon presents similar wording:
"After the priest has said the prayer at the Rite of Peace and the greeting Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum (The peace of the Lord be with you always) and the people have responded, Et cum spiritu tuo (And also with you), the deacon, if it is appropriate, invites all to exchange the sign of peace. He faces the people and, with hands joined, says, Offerte vobis pacem pacem (Let us offer each other the sign of peace). Then he himself receives the sign of peace from the priest and may offer it to those other ministers who are closer to him."
~Dr. K
I am in no way bashing, I am just being a little "cheeky", which seems to be tolerated if one is talking about a "progressive."
ReplyDeleteI will check out your citation, and thank you for the information.
And again, I mean no distrepect what-so-ever, to Fr. A and the people of OLV, I am simply asking a question.
Well said, Dr. K.
ReplyDeleteOne thing not mentioned here yet; lay homilies are clearly condemned in several Church documents, but there is absolutely NOTHING saying that says the sign of peace is NOT optional or must be included.
ReplyDeleteCalling a priest a hypocrite is farther than anyone else has gone, Persis, and that includes everyone from us at CF and Ray at his blog. You're treading in dangerous and unfamiliar woods.
ReplyDeleteDr. K,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your information.
You said this is from the "new GIRM", I am correct in assuming that it is the one that was just approved and not the one we are using now?
Also, in regards to "when appropriate" could this be a reference to the time when a priest might have not had a congregation when he said the Mass (something that I know was an "obligation" and happen quite often in the past, therefore there was no one to ask to share a sign of peace.
I have long had issues with how we "practice" this custom, but I do believe that the best way to change it is to teach people the proper way, not do away with a "tradition" (the sign of peace has always been a part of the liturgy in my lifetime).
And, let me say it again,
I DID NOT INTEND TO BASH OR DISREPECT ANYONE.
This blog smells
ReplyDeleteAnd regardless of whether you meant to bash someone or not, you did.
ReplyDeleteagain.
It is from the 3rd edition of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, published in 2003.
ReplyDeleteIt comes from Section I.A.- Mass with a Congregation: Mass without a deacon, and I.B. - Mass with a Congregation: Mass with a deacon.
~Dr. K
It's not mandatory.
ReplyDeleteI honestly did not think Persis was bashing anybody or even getting all worked up. Maybe there is something about how I read words that I don't get. My porch light is on, but maybe I'm not home.
ReplyDeleteI have asked a few priests in DoR and DoB and other dioceses and they all have said the Kiss of Peace is optional. But some of those priests offered that if (they stressed "if") you are going to have the KofP it is better to have it at the beginning of the Mass, or right after the Credo and before the Offertory, rather than where it is now.
Ya'll are probably going to gimme hell about this but *gulp* I believe that part (remember I said "part") of the success of the Mass depends on how long it take. *choir runs for cover*. In some places the K of P can take 5 or 6 minutes and worst of all is when the organist plays a sort of happy/clappy piece on the organ or piano which gets people standing up with hands extended going out to shake hands like a politican running for office. I'll slouch down and fall to the floor and wiggle away under the pews.
I seriously do think thought of peace and not of affliction for everyone. I guess the males of the species are not demonstrative and kissy/huggy about doing the K of P. I usually can't muster a good feeling about the KofP and people often accuse me of having this annoyed look on my face (I didn't think it was that obvious) but for goodness sakes the Body and Blood of Our Lord is present on the altar, I would rather pray for my soul and the ones in the congregation rather than handshake. Plus I hate handshakes that are NOT firm. Wimpy, deadfish handshakes leave me feeling oogie.
I went with my nephew to church and at the K of P he went over and bumped elbows, he got caught up the the latest gossip (it's the cool thing to do, he said), did a few "high fives" and one sidebump of his butt with a girl he said he like. He came back and said he might have a date that evening. After the Mass I roped his ass with okry (as they say). He was told in his "religious education" program that the KofP was probably the most important part of the Mass.
Thanks for putting up with my comments.
Let's not forget when the priest leaves the sanctuary during the kiss of peace to talk to his friend, Joe Layperson, in the 8th row pew.
ReplyDelete"Ok Joe, it's been 3 minutes, I gotta go back and finish up this Mass. We'll continue our conversation later"
Ban the kiss of peace.
I agree with 11:18.
ReplyDelete